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THis forum was created to encourage the idea that man made global warming is not proven science, and that anyone who would attempt to silence debate or stifle good science is potentially doing a disservice to the US and humanity.

 

I hope to attract commentary from experienced electricity generation industry people like you.

 

"The debate is over:  Man Made Global Warming Theory's financial impact on you is man-made."


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member photo Global Warming is a natural phenomenon that will prove to be one of the greatest challenges that our civilization will ever have to deal with; the human race picked an unfortunate time to have an industrial revolution/population explosion on the global warming/cooling cycle, as researchers have determined that we are not quite at the peak temperatures and CO2 levels of the warming cycle. Enjoy the warm weather while it lasts; there will be another Ice Age in about 50,000 years, give or take 10,000 years...
# Posted By William Norquay | 7/22/08 11:29 AM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
member photo No, the debate isn't over. Of course there will be a price to pay for converting to renewables and getting the fossil fuel monkey off our back (the easy part) and off the backs of the rest of the the world (the hard part). I suspect that price will be a small fraction of the cost of staying hooked on fossil fuel as oil reserves deplete, climates shift, whole chains of species we depend on go extinct, and nations go to war to secure dwindling fossil fuel reserves.

As a thought experiment, try this: Load the entire human species in a truck and accelerate toward the bridge, full throttle, ignoring all reports that the bridge is out, and claim that is not yet scientifically proved. By the way, you know the brakes don't work very well. At the last minute, your only chance to stop the truck will be to slam into the bridge abutment. I say it's prudent to slow down NOW, not THEN.

This is not a wild exaggeration. This sequence could collapse nature and, if it goes, we go with it. Think it through.
# Posted By Michael Gembol | 7/23/08 8:16 AM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
member photo Has anyone seen information on what the total, worldwide, release of GHG is on an annual basis from all sources,natural and man-made? What proportion of GHG by category, CO2, CH4, SF6, H20, etc. are natural occuring and what are man-made? This data could give us an idea of how big the problem is and which portions of it are most impacted by man-made or man controlled GHG. Energy efficiency, renewable resources and other conservation measures are prudent approaches to both GHG and fossil resource issues, but let us understand what we really are dealing with and what is our ability to impact the issues we are trying to address.
# Posted By Bohdan Buchjynsky | 7/25/08 10:45 AM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
member photo Certainly the debate is heating up as more evidence come to light about the nature of Global Warming. You basically have the natural part that has been going on since the last ice age in erratic spurts. Then there's the alleged human caused part that is supposedly going to start accelerating things and lead us into an irreversible tripping point.

But a funny thing happened on the way to An Inconvenient Truth movie, there came a rising inconvenient discord among scientists as to the strength of the human contribution part to global warming and weather it is continuing or peaking out. Hey, what a revelation, peak oil occurring with peak global warming, a very inconvenient revelation. It came from sites like http://adognamedkyoto.blogspot.com/ and CO2science.org.


There is more and more evidence that nature just won't listen to those climate modelers and continues to misbehave. So the AGW apologists have coined global warming with a new term, climate change, so no mater which way the climate goes, they have a ready set of pseudo science excuses at hand to put the blame on humans and emissions. it may not work in the long run but certainly they can keep the human caused climate change mantra going to convince the masses they must go back to the medieval living times. Forget radical Islamists, here come the eco religious police- CO2 bad, zero carbon good. It's back to the caveman future and no more carbonated drinks for you Bart!
# Posted By Scott Brooks | 7/27/08 8:58 PM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
member photo So if global warming is partially man-made (that's an IF), does that mean the man-made part can possibly be un-made (without severe population adjustment) and, if it is possible to become a GHG neutral species, that humanity's contribution to a GMT correction will be enough to prevent the sky from falling? Prove it.

OK, let's say you proved it (which you didn't). Now we know that if we eliminate fossil fuels we can "save the planet" - (at least until the next "environmentalist" fear of an ice age threatens to freeze out countless species we depend on makes us rethink CO2 and view it as our savior).

Now let's examine the impact of two electricity generating technologies that could lead the way to a fossil fuel free planet AND reduce GHG emissions: wind and nuclear. Let's limit this comparison to existing technologies - not include yet-to-develop "mass energy storage" technologies or "life cycle uranium utilization" that each could clearly can make a real difference. Since they are not commercially ready, let's leave them out for now, k? Let's not add new hydro either (because we have finally learned not to) and lets assume manufacturing will continue to operate on a 24/7 schedule and not limit our energy intensive processes to times of blustery weather (because we won't, and even if we did, we'd need quadruple the manufacturing and processing infrastructure we have today, which, incidentally, just might change our carbon shoe size).

The challenge: Compare wind and nuclear on three fronts: land use per capacity credited MW, dollars per capacity credited MW (Including transportation costs and amortization of infrastructure to extract, enrich and transport new and spent fuels (and storage costs) as well as transportation costs of delivering electrons to market. Finally, compare wind and solar on facility construction resource utilization, again, per capacity credit factored MW.

Give each three point five trillion dollars and ten years.
Which technology can deploy more electricity capacity?
Which has the greatest environmental impact? Visual impact? Species damage impact? And which is kinder to end user budgets?

To the bridge abutment metaphor - There has always been the possibility that the human race will come to an end. One way to preserve it in the long run is to colonize off planet. Should we start today investing heavily in that idea, too?

Be right back - I need to get a sweater.

That reminds me - what is the GHG impact of government mandated sweater wearing or outlawing of air-conditioning in favor of fans and evaporative coolers? What about reproductive freedoms? Extrapolate population growth trends another 1,000 years . . answer still the same?

One thing is for sure, we are trending toward getting "all the government we pay for." We'd better make sure we keep our hands on THAT wheel - and our foot on the brakes (however worn out they may be).
# Posted By Thomas Stacy | 9/11/08 6:47 AM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
member photo So far, best comment... "Be right back, I need to get a sweater." Short, sweet and So to the point. Good one , Tom!
# Posted By Katherine Bush | 9/18/08 3:55 PM | Report This Comment as Foul/Inappropriate
 
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